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	<title>Comments on: Northwest Airlines Flies Around Turbulence, While Others Rough It.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/</link>
	<description>Reporting on Turbulence</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Northwest and Delta to Merge - Turbulence Forecast Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-47637</link>
		<dc:creator>Northwest and Delta to Merge - Turbulence Forecast Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-47637</guid>
		<description>[...] to site visitors is their turbulence avoidance strategy, as seen in previous blog posts here: one, two, three, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to site visitors is their turbulence avoidance strategy, as seen in previous blog posts here: one, two, three, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tb_neg</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32548</link>
		<dc:creator>tb_neg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32548</guid>
		<description>jmaroon

Thank you for your post.  I have no relationship with Northwest, just a fan.  I've tracked flights by them lots of times that haven't been posted as blog posts, and they always seem, in my eyes, to do more than the others.  You are right, other airlines do ask for other altitudes and other measures, but it is my opinion that Northwest is the most proactive.  I am also sure that routing and other measures are not as simple as they seem on the surface, but when they fly the same routes as the others, but deviate from those same routes on days such as the one mentioned in that post, they must be doing it for some reason, right?  The path taken by them was a bit longer, but clear of any pilot reports. They have also stayed much lower than other flights in certain instances of turbulence advisories for certain altitudes.  Maybe it's just me, but I detect a pattern.

I try to remain objective and factual in my analysis and I do check most airlines and also compare Northwest routing compared to other days for the same route, time, and airline.  In other words, I even compare Northwest against itself to try and figure out the reasoning behind the routing changes.

Also see this link:
http://www.nwa.com/weather/
and look at comment #4 above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jmaroon</p>
<p>Thank you for your post.  I have no relationship with Northwest, just a fan.  I&#8217;ve tracked flights by them lots of times that haven&#8217;t been posted as blog posts, and they always seem, in my eyes, to do more than the others.  You are right, other airlines do ask for other altitudes and other measures, but it is my opinion that Northwest is the most proactive.  I am also sure that routing and other measures are not as simple as they seem on the surface, but when they fly the same routes as the others, but deviate from those same routes on days such as the one mentioned in that post, they must be doing it for some reason, right?  The path taken by them was a bit longer, but clear of any pilot reports. They have also stayed much lower than other flights in certain instances of turbulence advisories for certain altitudes.  Maybe it&#8217;s just me, but I detect a pattern.</p>
<p>I try to remain objective and factual in my analysis and I do check most airlines and also compare Northwest routing compared to other days for the same route, time, and airline.  In other words, I even compare Northwest against itself to try and figure out the reasoning behind the routing changes.</p>
<p>Also see this link:<br />
<a href="http://www.nwa.com/weather/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nwa.com/weather/</a><br />
and look at comment #4 above.</p>
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		<title>By: jmaroon</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32544</link>
		<dc:creator>jmaroon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32544</guid>
		<description>I gotta say, I have seen your posts in the past, tb, and it seems to me like you have some vested interest in promoting Northwest.  I don't know if you work for them, have a financial stake tied to their success, or are just a big fan, but you really seem to have blinders on when it comes to it.  As the pilot above explained, routing is not as straightforward as you suggest.  Additionally, if you have ever spent any time on a flight deck, or have friends that work ATC, you will know that aside from matters of safety and navigation, pilots and ATC spend a good deal of time asking for ride reports and doing their very best to find smooth air to provide a comfortable ride. Indeed, when pilots hit a rough ride, they will often contact ATC to request a change in altitude or routing, will ask for reports on severity and duration of turbulence from planes on similar tracks ahead of their own, and do whatever they can to smooth the ride.  Also, I think if you are suggesting that Northwest reroutes to avoid turbulent areas, that is a bit farfetched.  Northwest, like other airlines may work to find smoother rides on a given route, but to suggest that they will travel hundreds of miles out of their way to avoid bumpy rides is not realistic -- if there is a major weather system, yes (but then so will all the other airlines) -- but not just to avoid bumps.  Also, it could be that Northwest have lousy (meaning longer) routing compared to other airlines.  Anyway, if you have some relationship to Northwest, you prolly should disclose it.  If not, keep cheering them on, but know that all airlines work very hard to provide smooth rides to pax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta say, I have seen your posts in the past, tb, and it seems to me like you have some vested interest in promoting Northwest.  I don&#8217;t know if you work for them, have a financial stake tied to their success, or are just a big fan, but you really seem to have blinders on when it comes to it.  As the pilot above explained, routing is not as straightforward as you suggest.  Additionally, if you have ever spent any time on a flight deck, or have friends that work ATC, you will know that aside from matters of safety and navigation, pilots and ATC spend a good deal of time asking for ride reports and doing their very best to find smooth air to provide a comfortable ride. Indeed, when pilots hit a rough ride, they will often contact ATC to request a change in altitude or routing, will ask for reports on severity and duration of turbulence from planes on similar tracks ahead of their own, and do whatever they can to smooth the ride.  Also, I think if you are suggesting that Northwest reroutes to avoid turbulent areas, that is a bit farfetched.  Northwest, like other airlines may work to find smoother rides on a given route, but to suggest that they will travel hundreds of miles out of their way to avoid bumpy rides is not realistic &#8212; if there is a major weather system, yes (but then so will all the other airlines) &#8212; but not just to avoid bumps.  Also, it could be that Northwest have lousy (meaning longer) routing compared to other airlines.  Anyway, if you have some relationship to Northwest, you prolly should disclose it.  If not, keep cheering them on, but know that all airlines work very hard to provide smooth rides to pax.</p>
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		<title>By: tb_neg</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32521</link>
		<dc:creator>tb_neg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32521</guid>
		<description>dantheman:

Weather matters most.  If it's rough all over, it doesn't matter who you fly.  If it's smooth all over, it doesn't matter who you fly.  If it's half and half (like it typically is), then, it matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dantheman:</p>
<p>Weather matters most.  If it&#8217;s rough all over, it doesn&#8217;t matter who you fly.  If it&#8217;s smooth all over, it doesn&#8217;t matter who you fly.  If it&#8217;s half and half (like it typically is), then, it matters.</p>
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		<title>By: dantheman</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32517</link>
		<dc:creator>dantheman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32517</guid>
		<description>I don't know. The worst turbulence I have ever been through was on a northwest flight. If it wasn’t for the vodka they served on board of which I proceeded to drink rapidly during the hour plus pocket, It would have been the scariest flight evah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know. The worst turbulence I have ever been through was on a northwest flight. If it wasn’t for the vodka they served on board of which I proceeded to drink rapidly during the hour plus pocket, It would have been the scariest flight evah.</p>
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		<title>By: tb_neg</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32020</link>
		<dc:creator>tb_neg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32020</guid>
		<description>You are right.  An advisory does not mean there will be turbulence for sure, and an adjustment of a few thousand feet up or down does make all the difference in the world.

However, if the jet stream was more favorable to the south, why didn't the other airlines take advantage of it?  Also, there was some chop to the north of the area too, the most intensive region was though, within the yellow circle.

I think Northwest does fit a particular pattern, as they are more turbulence adverse than other airlines.  It could be a matter of policy or of their world famous turbulence prediction. I've also monitored flights to other destinations.  One day there was a moderate turbulence for 30,000-42,000ft.  NW was flying at 28,000 or lower through the area, while other airlines went at their standard altitudes.  

See this article:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05123/498351.stm

Specificically, this paragraph.

&lt;em&gt;But the improvement comes from more than just buckling up. Northwest Airlines has been a pioneer in developing forecasting for turbulence and wind shear, and today Northwest sells its daily "turbulence plot" to several other airlines. Northwest is particularly interested in the issue because it flies so much in mountainous areas. The information comes in the form of maps as well as instant text messaging sent to pilots in the air. Pilots can get warnings of turbulent air hundreds of miles in advance through onboard computers, or from FAA air-traffic controllers who collect reports of bumpy rides from planes, and figure out which altitudes are smoother than others.&lt;/em&gt;

Regardless of why, they routed to a totally clear area, and that means a lot for the visitors of this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right.  An advisory does not mean there will be turbulence for sure, and an adjustment of a few thousand feet up or down does make all the difference in the world.</p>
<p>However, if the jet stream was more favorable to the south, why didn&#8217;t the other airlines take advantage of it?  Also, there was some chop to the north of the area too, the most intensive region was though, within the yellow circle.</p>
<p>I think Northwest does fit a particular pattern, as they are more turbulence adverse than other airlines.  It could be a matter of policy or of their world famous turbulence prediction. I&#8217;ve also monitored flights to other destinations.  One day there was a moderate turbulence for 30,000-42,000ft.  NW was flying at 28,000 or lower through the area, while other airlines went at their standard altitudes.  </p>
<p>See this article:<br />
<a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05123/498351.stm" rel="nofollow">http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05123/498351.stm</a></p>
<p>Specificically, this paragraph.</p>
<p><em>But the improvement comes from more than just buckling up. Northwest Airlines has been a pioneer in developing forecasting for turbulence and wind shear, and today Northwest sells its daily &#8220;turbulence plot&#8221; to several other airlines. Northwest is particularly interested in the issue because it flies so much in mountainous areas. The information comes in the form of maps as well as instant text messaging sent to pilots in the air. Pilots can get warnings of turbulent air hundreds of miles in advance through onboard computers, or from FAA air-traffic controllers who collect reports of bumpy rides from planes, and figure out which altitudes are smoother than others.</em></p>
<p>Regardless of why, they routed to a totally clear area, and that means a lot for the visitors of this site.</p>
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		<title>By: GH</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32015</link>
		<dc:creator>GH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-32015</guid>
		<description>Being an airline pilot I think your missing a few points.  Just because they do or do not predict turbulance does not mean it will be there.  I have flown through areas that were bad for others but we had a smooth ride.  Just an adjustment of going up or down a few thousand feet can make all the difference.  Sometimes you get a 'reroute' after you take off to take more advantage of the winds.  I'd like to see where the jet stream was at, that may account for the southerly adjustment.  Just looking at the display, an adjustment to the north would miss the yellow area and get you to your destination faster and closer to your arrival time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being an airline pilot I think your missing a few points.  Just because they do or do not predict turbulance does not mean it will be there.  I have flown through areas that were bad for others but we had a smooth ride.  Just an adjustment of going up or down a few thousand feet can make all the difference.  Sometimes you get a &#8216;reroute&#8217; after you take off to take more advantage of the winds.  I&#8217;d like to see where the jet stream was at, that may account for the southerly adjustment.  Just looking at the display, an adjustment to the north would miss the yellow area and get you to your destination faster and closer to your arrival time.</p>
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		<title>By: tb_neg</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-31995</link>
		<dc:creator>tb_neg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 16:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-31995</guid>
		<description>I did track a jetBlue flight, and they flew through the zone.  It is possible that they do deviate on smoother paths from time to time, but I did not see it yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did track a jetBlue flight, and they flew through the zone.  It is possible that they do deviate on smoother paths from time to time, but I did not see it yesterday.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-31947</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 05:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/blog/2008/01/05/northwest-airlines-flies-around-turbulence-while-others-rough-it/#comment-31947</guid>
		<description>TB, do you happen to know if JetBlue changed routes yesterday too?

I've noticed a number of times when it gets turbulent over Colorado that Jetblue takes that more southern route too.  Sometimes it's a difference of one flight, one will go through Colorado then the next is south of there.  At least the flights from Long Beach to NY, instead of going through Nevada, Utah then Colorado, they go almost due east over Arizona, New Mexico, Kansas then start to go more Northeasterly.  I've never checked their flights out of Burbank but I'm guessing they do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TB, do you happen to know if JetBlue changed routes yesterday too?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve noticed a number of times when it gets turbulent over Colorado that Jetblue takes that more southern route too.  Sometimes it&#8217;s a difference of one flight, one will go through Colorado then the next is south of there.  At least the flights from Long Beach to NY, instead of going through Nevada, Utah then Colorado, they go almost due east over Arizona, New Mexico, Kansas then start to go more Northeasterly.  I&#8217;ve never checked their flights out of Burbank but I&#8217;m guessing they do the same.</p>
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