Trip Report from Detroit to Phoenix on August 10th

[djp38]

Sorry its taken a while. The following was the personalized forcast:

Takeoff from DTW should be ok, although you might have a short period of light moderate as you climb out due to jet stream activity, then it should be a good flight until you start your descent into PHX. Landing and take off in PHX can always be interesting because of the thermals because its really hot in Phoenix right now.

The prediction was right on the money. Because of the jet stream activity, the flight experienced some moderate turbulence for about 45 minutes. Landing into Phoenix was less turbulent than I expected, but there was still some light-moderate at some points.

Thanks!

[Putt4Par]

Sorry its taken a while. The following was the personalized forcast:
The prediction was right on the money. Because of the jet stream activity, the flight experienced some moderate turbulence for about 45 minutes. !

OK, dude, nobody experiences moderate turbulence for 45 minutes. First of all, true moderate turbulence is due to high winds, jetstream, or storms. All of these are no larger than 50 miles, so if you go through moderate turbulence it won't last more than 10 minutes. Furthermore, your pilot would NEVER put you through moderate turbulence for 45 minutes. That is ridiculous. You probably went through light chops...but to fearful flyiers light chop feels like extreme turbulence.

Here is definition of moderate turbulence: sudden changes in altitude that strain you against your seat, fishtailing, wings moving side to side, big drops, very difficult (if not impossible) to walk, objects cannot stay on the trays. Now, tell me you went through this non-stop for 45 minutes. I have pretty good tolerance, and the longest moderate I have hit was when landing in L.A. some time ago. There was nowhere to go so it lasted about 5 minutes and it was a very tough ride with some people even letting out a scream or two and kids crying.

[Hunter75]

I beg to differ. While it's not likely or common, it is possible. I was on a DFW-PHX US flight a few months ago in a 733. Huge, thick like of t-storms created a wall between us and our destination (they were causing tornados in OK). We entered into the clouds and hit what can easily be described as moderate turbulence. Serveral pax were crying, a handful used their sick sacks. One hour and twenty minutes of very tense flying required the FAs to remain seated. We climbed as high as we could go, but there was no relief. Now, was it 70 minutes of non-stop? No. There were a couple of 5 minute breaks in there, but overall one of the worst rides I've experienced (other than an EMB into SGU in the middle of summer where a rough ride is requisite).

After about 90 minutes, the Capt let the FAs up, but 50 minutes out of PHX made them prepare the cabin for landing. Even when up, they didn't bring the carts out, as they were having a tough time staying on their feet.

[mareducate]

That flight sounds terrible, really not acceptable for the airline to put you through that. I'm sure they knew about the wall of t-storms up ahead. Shouldn't passengers be warned about what they are getting into before boarding? Other than this website, isn't there any way we can find out ahead of time?

[tb_neg]

An airline never wants to fly though this stuff, but sometimes it is a necessity, although the passengers were never in any danger.

[Hunter75]

Conditions also can change very quickly. When we left DFW, there may have been a relatively clear path to PHX, but weather is unpredictable and we may have just been taken by surprise. I'm sure the flight deck crew weren't a couple of cowboys intent on getting their plane to PHX. We just got caught up in an unfortunate turn of the weather that resulted in a pretty uncomfortable flight for many passengers.

[dilbert.rules]

I beg to differ. While it's not likely or common, it is possible. I was on a DFW-PHX US flight a few months ago in a 733. Huge, thick like of t-storms created a wall between us and our destination (they were causing tornados in OK). We entered into the clouds and hit what can easily be described as moderate turbulence. Serveral pax were crying, a handful used their sick sacks. One hour and twenty minutes of very tense flying required the FAs to remain seated. We climbed as high as we could go, but there was no relief. Now, was it 70 minutes of non-stop? No. There were a couple of 5 minute breaks in there, but overall one of the worst rides I've experienced (other than an EMB into SGU in the middle of summer where a rough ride is requisite).

After about 90 minutes, the Capt let the FAs up, but 50 minutes out of PHX made them prepare the cabin for landing. Even when up, they didn't bring the carts out, as they were having a tough time staying on their feet.



Actually what you described with people crying and barfing is SEVERE not MODERATE turbulence. Any time you have significant constant altitude changes and people barfing, that is the definition of severe.


Aeronautical Information Manual provides this guide (Chapter 7-1-44):

Light: Turbulence that momentarily causes slight, erratic changes in altitude and/or attitude (pitch, roll, yaw). Report as Light Turbulence
or
Turbulence that causes slight, rapid and somewhat rhythmic bumpiness without appreciable changes in altitude or attitude. Report as Light Chop. Occupants may feel a slight strain against belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects may be displaced slightly. Food service may be conducted and little or no difficulty is encountered in walking.

Occasional-Less than 1/3 of the time.
Intermittent-1/3 to 2/3.
Continuous-More than 2/3.


Moderate: Turbulence that is similar to Light Turbulence but of greater intensity. Changes in altitude and/or attitude occur but the aircraft remains in positive control at all times. It usually causes variation in indicated speed. Report as Moderate Turbulence;
or
Turbulence that is similar to Light Chop but of greater intensity. It causes rapid bumps or jolts without appreciable change in aircraft or attitude. Report as Moderate Chop. Occupants feel definite strains against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects are dislodged. Food service and walking are difficult. NOTE
1. Pilots should report location(s), time (UTC), intensity, whether in or near clouds, altitude, type of aircraft and, when applicable, duration of turbulence.
2. Duration may be based on time between two locations or over a single location. All locations should be readily identifiable.

EXAMPLES:
a. Over Omaha, 1232Z, Moderate Turbulence, in cloud, Flight Level 310, B707.
b. From 50 miles south of Albuquerque to 30 miles north of Phoenix, 1210Z to 1250Z, occasional Moderate Chop, Flight Level 330, DC8.


Severe: Turbulence that causes large, abrupt changes in altitude and/or attitude. It usually causes large variations in indicated airspeed. Aircraft may be momentarily out of control. Report as Severe Turbulence. Occupants are forced violently against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects are tossed about. Food service and walking are impossible.


Extreme: Turbulence in which the aircraft is violently tossed about and is practically impossible to control. It may causes structural damage. Report as Extreme Turbulence.

High level turbulence (normally above 15,000 feet ASL) not associated with cumuliform cloudiness, including thunderstorms, should be reported as CAT (clear air turbulence) preceded by the appropriate intensity, or light or moderate chop.

[SuzieCandelore]

For folks that don't fly much or have fears of flying, light turbulence can definitely feel like moderate turbulence because one is so focused on it while it's happening. Usually turbulence in and around Phoenix is light.

[Alo]

I have read many posts from this nice forum and all of them are interesting to read out, we hope that you will keep up the good work.